In the introductory material on Milton, we learn that he was involved with politics. Book 2 certainly has some political elements. How do you think Milton’s involvement in politics influenced the political aspect of the text?
ENGL 201 | British Literature to 1800
Myra Seaman | Fall 2012
Hell has governing laws and there is a king and a temple. These are aspects that fit into the real world and they are political issues. Hell also seems to be broken up into areas like the Europe was broken up into sections and countries. There is also chaos and incestuous relationships like the monarchy’s of the time. He puts real world aspects in of social and political turmoil. I think these aspects represent how he views the world at the time. He was an advocate of absolute individual freedom and thought that power corrupts. He shows that power corrupts in his representations of hell and heaven. However, I think he believed we need laws to obey, this is represented by hell having a set of laws and heaven, the ultimate power, having no laws.
According to the bio provided in our text, Milton “served as Secretary for Foreign Tongues in the government of Oliver Cromwell.” His political affiliations in life seem to be presented by Satan and his cohorts. With the Restoration of the monarchy in 1660 Milton went into hiding (as a member of the Puritanical government of Cromwell he would have few friends under the new monarch). Satan and his armies are forced to flee from heaven following their failed attempt at changing the political and social landscape of heaven. Milton was briefly imprisoned, as Satan is imprisoned in the fiery lake. Satan speaks of freedom from heavenly tyranny as Milton does from worldly monarchical tyranny. Milton’s views would undoubtedly come through in the voices of his characters and Satan seems to be the first example.
The discussions between the demons themselves seems to have a political undertone in a democratic sense. Moloch suggests another war, while Belial suggests the demons take no action, claiming it’s better to be subjected to Hell than something worse in line 196. Mammon speaks after, and in line 260, begins to suggest that the demons build up Hell to resemble Heaven. Beelzebub then speaks, suggesting revenge on God for their banishment. All the fallen angels agree to this. For the evil they are supposed to represent, this is an entirely civil discussion that almost resembles a political debate. I believe this was Milton’s very intention, making the demons decision making resemble that of those with political power, showing that even evil can reason.
While I agree that the demons are presented as having a debate between one another, I think it is important to point out that those involved behave cynically. Belial is a very powerful angel and uses that to manipulate others. While it shows that evil can have reason, it is a satire of the politicians in Milton’s day. The issues they are debating are merely different evils, truth and righteous thoughts do not enter the conversation. This scene is ultimately trying to say that politics corrupt those who choose to engage in it.
Milton may not have incorporated specific instances from his own life in the political sphere but he certainly brings with it his attitude toward it. The discussion among all of the ones who had fallen from Heaven does appear very civilized, as someone has already stated. But the underlying discussion at hand is one of treaty and wrath, not the most civilized ideas and emotions. Satan’s group may appear civil on the outside, but on the bottom layer the audience must remember that they are betraying their benefactor, a punishment Dante would have confided to the deepest of circles of Hell. Through making the ones who fell seem civilized Milton may be drawing a parallel between these characters and those he encountered in the political sphere, perhaps expressing his concern of the corruption there.
Paradise Lost incorporates many aspects of politics. These aspects can be seen as an allegory relating the happenings of the book with those of real life. Satan’s speeches have a very political feel to them and show how Satan is similar to a politician. Satan is also corrupt through his ability to wield words and sentences to mean other things than they seem; this is another aspect of his representation as a politician. The fight for the loyalty of Adam and Eve also seems to be similar to politicians attempting to gain followers. Book 2 may be representative of a political satire similar to the debates that Milton had to conduct in his youth.
I agree with Kaya in many areas. Paradise lost does incorporate a political feel with Satan making him appear to be similar to a politician. This sort of manipulation and persuasion is what causes him to make evil things seem acceptable at times. This is clear as many people discussed, with the story of Adam and Eve. I think that Milton’s writing portrays his work in politics in a way that he knows how to change people’s feelings without them knowing. This is exemplary through the evil works of Satan. I also agree with Cassie’s statement that Milton presents the idea that evil people can reason as well. This can cause temptation and a path down the wrong road in life. Satan is ver similar to a political character in his distinct views and extreme power over the people. He also has many aspects like laws and a community that make him seem that much more like a political influence.
I agree with Autumn’s comment that hell has governing laws and that there is a king and a temple, which could be influenced from Milton’s political involvement. Satan himself has a lot of what seems to be political power. His speeches are powerful like a leader of a country’s are, and the demons’ disagreeing or agreeing on certain things (like one suggesting war) creates political issues. The fact that Satan’s Hell is a society where people live and communicate that he rules creates a political influence to the story in itself.
Milton’s involvement in politics influenced the political aspect of the text through his depiction os Satan and his world. I agree with Kaya that Satan is very comparable with a politician because of his speeches and his persuasion techniques. Similarly, Milton uses Satan to show that even the corrupt and “bad” political figures are not innately evil but, rather, become that way due to the events that they must endure. Satan is also shown to be similar to a political figure because he is, in fact, a successful leader and his is extremely power-hungry. Milton’s political views greatly influenced the text, particularly through Satan.
What Macy is saying is exactly how I feel. I would argue that Satan has key aspects that resembles a politician in the fact that he gains his followers by persuading them with very powerful speeches. It is very interesting that Milton uses this approach to portray Satan because of the similarities it has to a politician. It makes appear that Milton does not like politicians if he is given Satan similar characteristics. You can see this all throughout his work, he puts his personal beliefs into the character of Satan.
Milton obviously has a background in politics which is shown when Hell’s angels are making a decision on what to do after the first unsuccessful battle with God. It seems to be a democracy between them. They unanimously come to a decision to reek havoc on Man with Satan as the forefront of all the chaos. The fact the Satan volunteers himself and that the demons and devils are agreeing democratically shows how Milton humanizes them. Milton did a good job using politics.
In Book 2 of Paradise Lost, we see the fallen angels in a debate. Several of them make speeches explaining their position as to what they think they should do and then they all make a consensus. I think these passages show that Milton believed in a democracy where everyone has the freedom to state their opinion and then help in making a decision. This is different than how a monarchy would be which Hell obviously isn’t and reveals Milton’s support of a democracy–showing that, like someone previously said, even though the fallen angels are damned, they still can reason well.
They do seem like they are an open floor like a congressional hearing. They all use what seems to be reason and rhetoric to dictate they next movement. But I believe Satan with the support of Beelzebub has pretty much predetermined how things will go. Which seems to corrupt the open and seemingly democratic forum. Satan is slick by any means, very much silver tongued like a politician.
Milton’s background in politics is very clear through his representation of Satan and his fellow demons. After the loss in the battle against God, we see them come together to a forum of sorts to discuss their next course of action. Also, Satan himself is very persuasive in order to get the other angels to follow him. Persuasion is something seen in every politician. I like how Jacob says that “Satan with the support of Beelzebub has a pretty much predetermined how things will go.” Essentially, Satan has made a dictatorship or monarchy look like a democracy.
I think we see Milton’s political views definitely translating through in certain aspects of the story. I think the parts we see them most strongly is through Satan and all the scenes in which he is interacting with his angels. As we started to touch on last class, we acknowledged that the governance of Satan with his angels was one of a very strong leader who was quite fair and just with the fallen angels and I feel as if this might have been a way that Milton was showing through his writing characteristics he found to be important and necessary in a ruler. Also the way that God is depicted in this story may have underlying tones of political views. Satan refers to God multiple times as a tyrant and we know that in the time Milton was writing, one of the main political concerns was rebellion against tyranny, which is exactly what Satan is doing with God in the story so I think that clearly shows what side Milton lays with on that issue.
I think Milton’s involvement in politics influenced the text in a way of leadership and being driven to reach a goal. Satan is depicted through the text as a strong and ambitious leader to his followers for the cause of fighting God. I agree with Kristen with the fact that Satan’s tone and demeanor is him being more for democracy where the people are the ones that should be served. God on the other hand was depicted as a tyrant where his power was abused and no care for his followers was given.
I agree with previous comments that Milton’s involvement in politics influenced the political aspect of the text through his depiction of Satan. Satan is depicted as a powerful, ambitious leader, which in turn makes him resemble a politician. He gains his followers through his persuasive speeches, as a politician would. Satan’s followers, other demons, agree or disagree (debate) on certain issues–this creates something similar to a political debate. Throughout the text, Satan’s tone/demeanor seem to portray a democracy, meaning he was in favor of the people (his followers) and their thoughts/ideas, while on the other hand God was depicted as a tyrant, his power was abused and his followers were not cared for.
As with any writer, Milton’s story was affected by events and other occurrences that happened in his life. The fact that he was a politician shows up in several places of the story. I agree with the comment above me that goes into detail about the depiction of Satan and his role in the story. However, I felt that Satan is a manipulator and uses strong and somewhat deceiving persuasions to get his way. His behavior lives up with the behavior of many politicians in present day and in earlier times.