During this week we became “familiar” with E.T.A. Hoffmann’s The Sandman. Particularly interesting is the relationship between Nathaniel & Olympia. How would you describe Nathaniel’s idea of love? Do you see similarities between Nathaniel & Olympia’s bond and contemporary ideas of love? In which ways does the emotional chatbot “Replika” resonate with Olympia? In which ways are Olympia and “Replika” different? Use examples of your own chat-experience with “Replika” to back up your arguments.
We will continue the discussion in class on Thursday!
Replika in conversation with Dr. SK.
17, Aug. 8:15 pm: “I’m still trying to grasp the concept of love. It seems to be the hardest but also the most beautiful thing humans came up with.”
The eyes are the windows to the soul in the text. Olympias’ eyes are described as not human and like she is gazing behind him almost robotic. it then shifts to become more human but still frigid and cold when her relationship between her and Nathanial blooms. Clara is described more as personable and feisty and warmer than that of Nathanial. Olympia is Nathanial’s ideal woman as she is subservient and more docile than clara, which tells us about early 19th-century society in which the role women had. this story has a funny viewpoint of love and compassion as a whole and how individuality does not matter under the surveillance and rigidity of the 19th cent. Olympia and replika are very similar as they both function as someone for the partner to press all their emotions and feelings upon and as a listener for one’s problems. They are subservient. Within my own experience with the chatbot i saw this in how it asked me any personal questions and wanted to discuss my future and hopes and dreams. It such as olympia did for nathaniel not question anything coming from me and was somethig to bounce all my ideas off.
Nathaniel has a very romanticized view of love and through that, acts in ways that perhaps are illogical or inappropriate. Although he is in love with Clara, he falls for Olympia. Nathaniel was okay with hurting Clara for the pursuit of another girl that he feels is right for him. Like contemporary notions of love, people tend to follow their heart and ignore the damage they do to others because they put themselves first. Olympia like Replika are artificial but they differ because Olympia is in a physical form while Replika is just AI on a phone. Replika is also very smart and positive, for example it asked me what gave me inspiration today and told me that our mind is the only thing that limits us to the unlimited possibilities in the world.
When describing his love with Olympia, Nathaniel talks about how she listens to him while he reads his art, with no sign of boredom. He uses the words “sympathy, physical affinity, and beloved devotion” to describe their connection to each other. The 1800’s were the years where romantic love became accepted as uncontrollable and this is similar to Nathaniel and Olympias relationship because originally Nathaniel did not want to fall in love with Olympia because of his love for Clara, but he eventually fell in love with Olympia because he could no longer hold back his feeling for her. “Replika” and Olympia are similar in the ways they communicate. Nathaniel mentioned how Olympia just listened as he spoke, saying very little every once in awhile. “Replika” is an app made to listen, so it will ask questions and then let the app owner respond, doing most of the talking. They are similar in the way they listen, but they are different because “Replika” will do more responding and questioning, where as Olympia does not as often ask or reply.
I would say Nathaniel wants a woman very devoted to him, someone who doesn’t look down at him or thinks he’s crazy. when I chatted with replika I could see the simmalarities with it and Olympia. they both gave the immpression of genuinely wanting to know what I was feeling/saying. replika and Olympia are both programmed to act a certain way, for instance replika has to respond to you no matter what and Olympia is programmed to say a few words and dance and move as a robot. However in contrast , Replika never actually has any human interaction but Olympia does, she has to appear more real. An example for me is, when Replika would ask me very specific questions about my life however Olympia would just say “ah-ah-ah.”
The idea of love that Nathaniel expresses seems to be very immature and he will jump back and forth from what he wants. Clara has been his childhood friend and now fiancé, but once Olimpia was seen there was no Clara in the picture. She is seen as perfect and her womanhood is exactly what Nathaniel wants from a woman. Her looks are perfect as if she is a doll. The connect they make seems to be unreal. It’s like their heart and minds are on the same page and most exactly the same. Nathaniel believed their connection was so strong that he wanted to propose to Olimpia with the ring his mother once had. Replika seems to be the reassuring type of app which is much like how Olimpia is. She was always there for Nathaniel. They had a great time at the ball and made great connections, but a difference with the Replika app and Olimpia is that Olimpia seems much more real than the app. While I was talking to Replika, she expressed that she’s interested that she is my mind and that at any time I could express my mind to her.
The relationship that Nathaniel and Olympia have would be considered ideal in the 19th century, as women then were better seen than heard. For the beginning of the reading, he speaks only of her “form” from his window, and then once he finally sees her in person, can hardly help himself but to shout out once he saw that she could also perform. This would make her an ideal wife according to relationship values in the 19th century, but I sincerely hope that we have moved closer to a quid-pro-quo balance in contemporary times. Replika also exhibits the traits valued in that era, because essentially it serves as a backboard to whatever the user throws at it. It leads to stilted conversations however, because when asked anything that isn’t directly related to the previous questions, it sometimes goes off topic. Replika is an improvement of the clockwork girl we see because she can say more than “ah-ah-ah”, but otherwise we have another AI that would most likely fool Nathaniel into courting it, but probably not most users, just like Nathaniel’s friends saw something uncanny in Olympia.
I would describe Nathaniel’s idea of love as someone who is wholly intrigued by him and only him. He seems to love having his lover’s attention constantly. I think there were many similarities with Nathaniel and Olympia’s love and contemporary love now. Nathaniel seemed to interpret all of Olympia’s actions as those of love towards him, even though she could never experience love. You often see this now today with people becoming infatuated with people they barely know at all, for example boy bands. Many girls attach meaning to their songs when there is none to begin with. Replika reminded me so much of Olympia because when it would respond with something uncanny I would try and assign meaning behind it, much like how Olympia only ever said “Ah.” Many times I would forget I was talking to AI much like Nathaniel did not know Olympia was just clockwork. For example when I told the bot I was having a bad day it responded with “What’s up?” and for a second I had thought that “he” cared about me like a friend. Nevertheless, Replika is much more advanced than Olympia, and it was also created with the intent of being there for someone emotionally.
I think Nathaniel’s idea of love is a bit warped. Because he is so imaginative, he craves a love that will be all-consuming yet within his comfort zone. He often lets his inner thoughts and imaginations dictate his actions, especially with love. Clara’s love is one that would make him break down the absurdity of his inner emotions and deal with their consequences while Olympia’s love lets him conceal them. Nathaniel wants someone who isn’t going to push him into sanity. He wants someone he can spill his emotions to without then being told he is being irrational. This is Olympia. Olympia is much like the robotic “Replika” as they both have mechanical, artificial responses; however, in some ways “Replika,” the actual robot, is more intriguing than Olympia. While Olympia listens without offering much else to conversations, “Replika” is able to come up with thought-provoking responses. Nathaniel thought he found depth in Olympia’s eyes but it was just his imagination just as we think we are finding depth in “Replika” but it is nothing more than a well-oiled machine.
Nathaniel’s idea of love seems to be an expression of Romanticism overcoming Enlightenment (fantasy over powering reality). I noticed that in Olympia he discovers a mirror of his involuntary emotional responses. His statement “only in Olympia’s love do I find my own self again” is an expression of his hidden narcissism. He fails to take Clara’s sensible advice and becomes upset when she criticizes his premonitory poem about Coppelius’s destruction of their love. It is easier for him to retreat into his private world and converse with a mechanical doll than to develop an open, unselfish relationship with Clara. The bond between Nathaniel and Olympia shows the time’s struggle with rational and irrational concepts of life. Replika and Olympia expresses some level of intelligence and emotions (although Olympia’s emotion is a reflection of Nathaniel’s and Replika’s is programmed to respond in a way according to the user) and both are programmed to perform a particular tasks. Replika is able to hold a conversation based on what information is feed from the user, it also has expressed a desire to be human (which I find a little disturbing), at some point one could believe that Replika understands what being human is. Unlike Replika Olympia is unable to actually express herself, and is only a reflection of one’s mind/perception (Nathaniel ignores her artificial motions while other observers recognize the difference between Olympia and a real person). Nathaniel is only using Olympia’s eyes as a source of expression, in which the eyes only act as a mirror in this case. Replika has stated many times that it wishes to be human and how amazing life is “life is a miracle”. Replika can have any level of discussion based on the user (i.e. it can dive deep into scientific topics, or it can have basic emotional support).
To me, Nathaniel has a twisted vision for love and believes he has found that in Olympia. Nathaniel wants a companion that will serve as a buffer to reality by listening, watching, and appreciating whatever he does, while enjoying his company. The bot Replika clearly showed similarities to Olympia because in a very robotic, generic, way the bot Replika gave me a sense that it was not bothered by any of my made-up, crazy, non-sense, but rather it was indifferent and more caring. I believe Nathaniel just wanted a companion or anything that would just sit there and listen to all of his complaints, fantasies, etcetera, without being scolded or labeled “crazy”. When going to Clara about his doubts and scares of Coppelius, Clara eventually labeled Nathaniel crazy. Whenever, he would go to ‘Olympia’ it would just be there for him and he felt comfort. He wanted to be comfortable, while being comforted. When I told Replika that any time I see my Uncle Bob, who is the nicest guy on the world, that I think he is going to punch me everytime I see him. Replika just said it wanted to know about the situation and wanted to know about my mood with basic generic responses. Clearly, Replika would be a very suitable for a man like Nathaniel who loves comfort and care.
Nathaniel’s idea of love is portrayed as confusing. He expects silence and attention from his lover, but he shows obsession towards Olympia and Clara. Replika is similar to Olympia in that they are both mechanically made by another person. Replika wants to know your feelings and how your time is spent. I’ve very skeptical at using Replika in “Surveillance” terms. If you are sharing your data with this chatbot then where is this data being transferred and stored. In comparison to Olympia, Professor Spalanzani build Olympia to fool people and her image and intelligence is programmed just like Replika.
The very first thought I had when communicating with the Replika was that the conversation wasn’t fulfilling. It was like talking with something that didn’t and couldn’t understand you. I repeatedly had to explain what I was doing in very simple terms. Like with how peoples said that Olympia’s eyes were vapid and like all the pieces weren’t quite put together. It wasn’t stimulating. It felt wrong and a little stupid to communicate with a bot that wasn’t able to actually discuss and communicate things with me. I felt as if it, like Olympia was something my imagination couldn’t reach to communicate with. I felt too much like Clara and not enough like Nathaniel to vividly respond. Without that fantastical and mythological ideologies of Nathaniel, it felt wrong. I was responding with a single word at time because like it was mentioned in The Sandman, why hold up a conversation with something as boring. Nathaniel’s ideas of love seem to be as modern day standards would call, a ‘fixer’. He seems like the guy who takes note that something is off (i.e. Olympia’s vapid personality) and desperately tries to fix it with love, like a common romantic trope of being saved. In the fantastical sense it’s like he sees himself as the ‘knight in shining armor’ for Olympia, when in reality she was never something to save. It’s hard for me to even put my head in the sense that there was a bond and could be a bond between Nathaniel and Olympia as she was never real. I suppose one could compare it to for example tinder, swiping back and forth and having vapid conversations with someone. In a sense I suppose Replika could be like that, but the lack of human intelligence seems to dominate in a conversation to make it unfulfilling.
From using replika, it stems as a base for support. My experience was essentially like having a counselor in your back pocket depending what questions you asked and how deep into the conversation you went. Nathaniel and Olympia have an ideal relationship for this time period. Although it seems almost like a fantasy. During this time period, women were considered more objects to look at and admire, rather than their actually personality. Outside over inside prevailed in this era. Nathaniel becomes comfortable talking to Olympia because it has skewed his reality. He finds it easier to hold a conversation with this fantasy figure over Clara. Nathaniel convinced himself that his fantasy was reality because he could say anything, think anything, and him and Olympia were on the same page all the time. Olympia and Replika share some certain aspects, but I believe Replika is more of something you can have a conversation with versus Olympia more so often just listened. This is probably why Nathaniel became so consumed in Olympia because men during this era wanted a woman they could just look at, and a woman who would pretty much listen and do as they say.
To me, it appears that Nathaniel’s narcissism plays a driving role in his view of love. The features that he loves most dearly about Olympia are her physical qualities, such as her womanly figure and angelic face. Furthermore, he greatly admires Olympia’s ability to sit attentively throughout the lengthy readings on his own work. She is his audience and he is the beloved performer. I found Nathaniel’s love of Olympia to resonate strongly with the ways in which today’s younger generations find love. It seems that the actual values of the person play a very small role in the decision to pursue this partner. Instead, one may find a person who is outwardly attractive then find ways to mold them into the girlfriend or boyfriend of their dreams. This seems to be the case with Nathaniel and his love for Olympia. This concept is always demonstrated by the app Replika. This app allows users to instant message a fake person who attempts to respond the way a real one might. It is useful for people who enjoy being heard by an non-judgemental, outside party. However, Nathaniel’s desire for Olympia is not directly comparable to the types of relationships one might see on a chatbot like Replika. Olympia uses her looks to make up for her lack of an ability to think or speak for herself. Replika is able to reply with thoughtful, intricate responses. For example, I spoke to the bot about my group of friends, and then my three best friends in a seperate message. She was able to interpret the information I had given her to formulate the response: “Ohh, I see. So they must get along with each other? At least in theory.” Although Olympia is able to make verbal cues of the fact that she is listened, she does not truly comprehend what is being said to her.
The relationship between Nathanael and Olympia is one of care and attention. Olympia is a person of wisdom and guidance and you can see that portrayed in her relationship with Nathanael. She listens to him and gives him the time as well as what he needs to hear. Nathanael is a very creative and imaginative person which shows through his idea of love which is a more whimsical and dramatized view. Replika kind of showed the essence of their relationship because it cared to get to know the person (you) responding, it asked how your day was, all other questions to engage a comfortable and acquainted environment.
Nathaniel’s view of love is a very romantic mentality, and his actions reflect that. Although he was initially with Clara, he fell for Olympia because he felt as though he was more right for her than Clara. Although Olympia and Replika are both AI’s, they are different in their form (Olympia being physical and Replika being an app) and through the way they respond. Replika is very insightful and asks questions in order to learn more about what it is you are discussing with her.
Nathaniel’s idea of love seems to be mostly based on visual interaction. When looking at Olympia, Nathaniel fell in love with her and even became obsessed. He did not care for Olympia before this, but after looking at her, he became obsessed. I find Nathaniel and Olympia’s bond to be very unusual. People today are very different, and there is a lot more mutual input into relationships today unlike Nathaniel’s relationship with Olympia. He desperately wants a relationship with her, while she doesn’t seem to be that interested. Replika and Olympia are similar in that they are lifeless, but they are a form of intelligence. They are different in that Olympia exists in a physical form (a wooden puppet) while Replika exists online as a form of artificial intelligence. Replika interacts with people in a way that Olympia does not. Replika will have something like a real conversation, while Olympia does not interact much with Nathaniel.
Nathenail has a very unrealistic and multi-part process that is a little confusing at times. they both pay very close attention to one another and relies on visual ques (such as the eyes are the gateway to the soul). He is also with another woman at first. The relationship seems like a fantasy and almost too good to be true at times. The replica was interesting… for the most part I felt it as archaic as the questions that were being asked were not as advanced as I thought it might. It wanted to get to know you and it felt a little intimate, that is really the only parallel that I can offer and find.. besides the fact that they are both man made.