Please feel free to respond to anything in the middle part of Northanger Abbey that particularly struck you. Here’s a prompt to get you started thinking:
Provide a close reading of one of the following scenes. In other words, discuss what happens in the scene, paying attention to specific language used. What do we learn in the scene about character or plot? Why do you think it’s important in the novel as a whole?
- The scene at the beginning of Chapter 11, when Catherine is tricked into going on the carriage ride with James and the Thorpes.
- The scene on the walk with the Tilneys in Chapter 14.
- The scene in Chapter 15 when we find out what Mr. Morland has offered to set up James and Isabella in their marriage.
- The scene in Chapter 19 (or Vol. 2, Chapter 4) when Henry and Catherine discuss the flirtation between Captain Tilney and Isabella.
- The scene in Chapter 20 (or Vol. 2, Chapter 5) that takes place in the carriage on the way to Northanger Abbey, as Henry and Catherine discuss the old house and what to expect.
In Chapter 11, when Catherine is tricked into going on the carriage ride with James and the Thorpes, we get a glimpse of just how manipulative John and Isabella can be. Catherine, having promised to walk with the Tilneys, thinks that they have already left for Bath because John takes advantage of her trusting nature and lies to her. His gaslighting and pushy tone saying things like “Nonsense, they’ll never miss you,” makes it explicitly clear how far he’ll go to sell his lie, but it also highlights that he truly doesn’t care about Catherine and only himself. This scene is so important because it shows Catherine’s struggle to figure out who she can really trust. She wants to do the right thing but feels stuck between her loyalty to the Tilneys and her brother and the Thorpes. It’s one of those moments that pushes her to grow. She starts to see that not everyone has good intentions, even people she thought were her friends. It’s also a key moment for the book’s larger themes. Austen uses this scene to show how selfishness and manipulation can mess with relationships. Catherine’s experience here is part of what helps her grow and learn to stand up for herself, which is such a big part of her journey in the novel.
Hi Molly!
I loved reading your thoughts about this scene. I too think that the themes of manipulation in this scene are very crucial to the storyline. Up until the later chapter where they try to get her to cancel again on the Tilney’s to go on the open carriage ride, Catherine is very easily pushed around. Many of the characters around her are only concerned with their own self-interests. I think it is also telling that John Thorpe thinks Catherine to be the heir of the Allen’s and likely wants that fortune for himself. He sees Henry Tilney as a threat and want to keep her as far away from him as possible. In similar fashion, Isabella sees Eleanor as a threat to her and Catherine’s friendship. Both of the Thorpe siblings manipulate Catherine in this scenario.
Great comment, Molly. Some critics have also talked about ways that this scene reflects the Gothic in that we could read it as Catherine being sort of kidnapped and imprisoned against her will, just as Gothic heroines like Emily St. Aubert are. So, Austen is both spoofing the Gothic and writing a Gothic at the same time. The big difference, though, is that, in Austen’s world, the dangers to young women don’t necessarily exist in the mysterious realm of castles, banditti, etc, but in the more ordinary threats facing them–having their reputations damaged, marrying an unworthy or unreliable partner, etc.
I completely agree with everything you said, Molly! This scene in particular is a turning point for Catherine. This scene not only shows a moment of growth for Catherine but also showcases the selfishness of the Thorpes. I believe this is a pivotal moment for Catherine’s development as a character as here you see her struggle with figuring out who to trust and that begins to morph her self-awareness.
The scene depicted in Chapter 11 shows many aspects of the main characters. Starting off how Mrs. Allen contradicts herself concerning the weather. First she tells Catherine that it will surely not rain then when it starts raining she tells Catherine, “’I thought how it would be’” and again later when the weather clears up, “who had ‘always thought it would clear up’”. It is curious to see Mrs. Allen lie about her perception of the weather since the why should it matter if she predicted the weather wrong? Later we see a true reveal of both John and Isabella Thorpe. John firstly continuously coerces Catherine to join them when on multiple occasion she says she has a prior engagement. On hearing that Catherine has plans it was, “talked down as no reason at all”. Then upon learning Catherine was to meet Tilney’s, Thorpe claims to have seen them driving around and claimed there to be so much dirt that Catherine would not be able to wall through. To push it further he claims to have overheard Tilney, “going as far as Wick Rocks”. This finally pushes Catherine to go with but on their way out Catherine sees the Tilney’s and begs Thorpe to stop the carriage and let her out which he instead drives faster. Finally when Isabella talks to Catherine about the issue she blames the Tilney’s for being late and claims that herself and John would not have minded the dirt though before claimed it was too dirty for Catherine to walk through. ] This scene is important as we get a clear depiction of Isabella and John’s true character. John finds it so easy to lie and not listen to what Catherine wants. Issabella also does not care for what Catherine wants and finds okay to badmouth the Tilneys though she should know what they mean to Catherine. The Thorpes are selfish and seem to have ulterior and underlying motives surrounding the Morlands. These characteristics of the Thorpes will most likely play a part in the latter parts of the story.
I definitely agree with your read on the Thorpes. That carriage scene felt like it particularly resembled the Gothic tradition, as Catherine was trapped both by expectation (of her friend Isabella and her brother) as well as physically. Especially because we had already learned that Catherine cares very little for John or his company, and he was the thing standing between her and her true interest. He is very manipulative and will say whatever he needs to say (including changing opinions and stories, or emphasizing certain qualities) in attempt to make Catherine interested in him. That carriage scene felt particularly uncomfy to me, as it resembles modern abusive relationships, as John used multiple different tactics of manipulation, and truly didn’t care about Catherine’s interest at all. –Even Catherine’s response resembled an abusive relationship, purposefully avoiding him, yet never really scorning him for his behavior or expecting any exacting consequences. Isabella, I agree, is also very manipulative. We see this early on when she is scorning any and every man at the dance, and also in this scene when she abuses her relationship with Catherine to attempt to bend her to her will, and the constant digs and insults she makes about the Tilney’s.
I agree with your comment on Catherine feeling trapped by the expectations of the masculine character in the carriage ride. Additionally, I think this is magnified by Catherine’s naivety. I would feel so terrified and confused in her position, because in her mind she had believed it to be impolite to decline John and Isabella despite her clear uncomfortabillity. She not only feels trapped in a physical sense in the carriage, but also socially.
Yes, good. And it seems that Catherine, despite being socially naive and gullible, does have good moral instincts, unlike some of the people, like the Thorpes, who can move through society more easily.
Here’s an interesting critical view that discusses another aspect of what it means for Catherine to ride in an open carriage with John Thorpe. Miriam Rheingold Fuller points out that, when we see Catherine asking for guidance on the propriety of going on such outings, Mrs. Allen’s advice initially seems silly and inane. She’s worried about Catherine getting her gown dirty or torn. But, Fuller continues, Mrs. Allen’s advice is actually “spot on”: “Austen uses clothing in other novels to signal women’s loss of virginity” (91). She points out that Lydia Bennet in Pride and Prejudice mentions a “great slit in her worked muslin gown” after her elopement with Wickham. In Mansfield Park, Fanny Price warns a friend not to meet a young man in a locked and fenced garden: “You will certainly hurt yourself against those spikes–you will tear your gown.” Mrs. Allen’s advice, according to Fuller, “symbolizes the dangers inherent in a young woman’s riding out alone with a man. Such a ride could lead to a girl’s losing her virginity, which is protected and signified by the ‘clean gown.'”
While strange men enter Emily St. Aubert’s room and try to kidnap her, thus threatening her virginity, Austen’s characters face similar threats, but in more mundane and ordinary circumstances.
I thought that the repeated contemplation over riding in the open carriages was a really interesting way to address social norms at the time. Catherine’s reaction to learning of what that can mean after she has ridden in James Thorpe’s carriage speaks to her desire to not be perceived in any ill manner. I also think this speaks to a class element to a certain extent. Where the well-to-do Thorpes have no qualms with riding with whomever they please in open carriages, Catherine, from a far more modest background, is very concerned about what the people of Bath will think of her after her carriage ride
I myself found the beginning of Chapter 11 to be home to such an intriguing scene which reveals so much about the Thorpes’ true nature. I agree with you Blake. I too found Mrs. Allen’s contradictions regarding the weather to be a fascinating observation. Like you had stated, it doesn’t really matter whether she predicted it correctly or not, so it makes me wonder if she’s just trying to seem more perceptive than she really is.
Moving onto John and Isabella, their selfishness and manipulation was so blatant in this chapter. The way John steamrolls Catherine’s plans and lies to suit his own agenda is infuriating, and Isabella’s ability to twist the situation to make it look like the Tilneys were in the wrong really shows how little she respects Catherine’s feelings. I think you’re right that these traits will play a significant role later on. It’s clear the Thorpes aren’t as well-intentioned as they try to seem.
Hi Blake! I agree completely with your close reading. This passage reveals how selfish the Thorpe siblings truly are. While it is definitely hinted at before now, this scene solidifies it. Isabella wants Catherine as a friend all to herself and sees Elanor Tilney as a threat to that. John wants the fortune that he believes Catherine to have. While she is not the heir to the Allens, John has convinced himself that he is. He wants to court her not out of love or romantic interest, but out of self-interest. He sees Henry Tilney as a threat to him getting the Allen’s fortune.
I found your analysis of Mrs. Allen very interesting! I wonder if she is purposely contradicting herself to make it seem like she was never in the wrong or if she is simply too ignorant to notice her falsehoods. Initially, Mrs. Allen is a little dense and unintelligent. After reading your analysis, I can certainly see how she could be attempting to make herself always seem right. Mrs. Allen is a very interesting character because she can viewed as both ignorant, but also a bit conniving. She certainly can be perceived as selfish when it comes to preserving her character to the public.
At the beginning of Chapter 11 in Northanger Abbey (Dover Thrift Edition), Catherine is tricked into going out with James and the Thorpes. Her enthusiasm for adventure and her romantic imagination make her an easy target for manipulation. When she hears the mention of a castle, her excitement overtakes her better judgment, and she allows her curiosity to cloud her loyalty. She allows herself to be taken by James and the Thorpes, instead of staying and waiting for Miss Tinley. This moment highlights Catherine’s dual nature: she is both gullible and principled, naive yet deeply romantic. She values honesty and keeping her word, but her love of mystery and intrigue, and her “nerdy” fascination with Gothic novels, proves just as powerful.
Catherine’s vulnerability to the Thorpes’ schemes also emphasizes her inexperience and youth. Her trust in others blinds her to their true motives, and her romantic idealism makes her believe that an outing involving a castle must align with the stories she’s read about. Even though she is almost an adult, she maintains her childlike dreams of living out her idea of adventure. This tension between her loyalty and her curiosity reflects a central theme in the novel: the clash between reality and fiction.
I think your point about Catherine’s inexperience and blind trust is very important to her characterization. Most of what she experiences would not have happened, if she had been slightly more mature or astute. I think this really shows true when she claims she had no idea of John’s interest in her later in the novel. She pleads heavily with Isabella to believe her “innocence” in the situation and expresses she hadn’t the slightest idea of John loving or propositioning her, even after what should have been very clear signs and conversations. I am not 100% sure how I feel about this, I definitely agree that reality v fiction is a central theme, but it also feels like Austen is characterizing Catherine as exactly the kind of girl who “reads novels”, or more clearly as the embodiment of the public opinion of the gothic novel. Which is interesting since I feel like she fights against those stereotypes early on.
I like your comment about her excitement clouding her judgment and loyalty because when I was reading I saw it more as her being loyal when she wanted to get out of the carriage but this opened up her character more for me. Especially because we see how she is young and even her brother convinced her to go so we can’t really blame her choice here with how you described her as naive but romantic.
Hi August!
I like your analysis of Catherine’s characterization in this scene. It certainly does point out the duality in Catherine’s nature as she chooses to go to the castle instead. I also agree that Catherine’s vulnerability and gullibility in this scene highlights her youthfulness and naivety despite her age and outward demeanor to others. In this scene readers see more of Catherine’s true character, and as Rebekka notes in her comment, she seems to take on this embodiment of the gothic novel stereotype.
A scene that I found very interesting was within Chapter 20. Here, we read the conversation between Henry and Catherine, discussing the upcoming journey within the walls of Northanger Abbey. Henry is aware of Catherine’s reading of The Mysteries of Udolpho, along with her love of the genre of the Gothic. He plays on this, describing the estate in a way a Gothic writer would do so. He states, “And are you prepared to encounter all the horrors that a building such as “what one reads about’ may produce? Have you a stout heart? Nerves fit for sliding panels and tapestry?” Catherine, in response, believes that she will not fall or fear these Gothic motifs within the Abbey. Henry is one of the only men who encourages and validates Catherine’s reading of the novel. However, this playful dialogue ignites a sense of curiosity within Catherine. This sets up this subconscious interest to look and uncover the “supernatural” and fear within the walls of the Abbey. Catherine, someone of the literal sense, took in Henry’s words. She’s now determined to seek out these sliding panels, tapestries, dimly lit hallways, and ghosts of prior inhibitors. In my opinion, from what has been read so far, this scene feels the most significant. Here, it inacts not only Cathnire but also us readers into the genre of the Female Gothic.
I found the scene to be quite playful but formative as well. More specifically, I saw this scene as Tinley almost poking fun at Catherine for her Udolpho obsession, but not in a way to make fun of her love for the novel. This scene also helps to add to the whole “spoofing the Gothic” idea, as in the next chapter, everything Tinley described becomes somewhat a reality, but we, as the reader, know not to take it all too seriously (as of right now, of course).
I agree!! Oddly enough most of the scenes you discussed remind me of the movie Scream, where the male characters would tease Sidney about how she watches too many scary movies and she’s paranoid or looking for scary things despite the fact there was a legit murderer on the loose. I think the satirical genre often pulls from this trope, by almost breaking the fourth wall in order to make the real twist or danger stick out and seem more real than the famous and fictional ones teased throughout the film/book before.
Hi Emily!
I wrote about this scene as well, because it felt like another great metafictive moment in the novel. You seem to have a much more positive view of the scene, which I enjoyed reading, because I honestly found it pretty anxiety-inducing. For me, it felt like Henry knew so much more than he let on, and was leading Catherine into a dangerous situation knowingly. But, I like your perspective that this conversation encourages Catherine to step into that role of the Gothic heroine that she loves so much. I wonder if this will be the thing that actualizes Catherine to other people? To everyone she’s always been just shy of “enough,” but maybe this experience could finally push her over the edge into being socially acceptable? (If that makes sense.) I think you summed it up perfectly by saying now she is “determined,” like this sense of danger has stirred up a motivation within her. If so, I can’t wait to see where this novel will take her!
By the end of the book, we might wonder how much Henry Tilney himself is to blame for Catherine’s flights of fancy. After all, he’s the one who plants ideas about things like the ebony cabinet in her mind–I’m assuming he knows which room she’ll be put into and that he’s aware of the mysterious cabinet in it.
In the beginning of Chapter 11, Catherine is fooled into taking a carriage ride with the Thorpe’s and James. This scene in particular highlights the naive nature of Catherine, but also acts as a notable element of the Gothic genre. While already in the carriage, Catherine spots Miss Tilney and wishes the drivers to stop. Austen writes, “Pray, pray stop Mr. Thorpe.- I cannot go on. I will not go on. I must go back to Mrs. Tilney” (56). After this, she continues on to express Catherine’s desire to exit the ride and return with the Tilneys. Austen’s use of language in this section reflects similar language to that of a kidnapping.
Along with this, the mock carriage kidnapping help to reveal the true nature of the Thorpes. John Thorpe entices Catherine into coming along despite the fact that she already had prior engagements with the Tilneys. Since Isabell knows that Catherine has recently been reading the Mysteries of Udolpho, they use this information to prey on her, tricking her into coming along. The ill intentions of the Thorpe’s form them into a type of villain for this portion of the novel.
I never thought of the fact that Isabella might’ve told her brother how to gain Catherine’s attention. We see that Isabella is always speaking highly of her brother, ironically directly after a scene where it shows the complete opposite. I like the point you bring up about how this scene makes them almost villainous, as this may foreshadow the later flirtation she has with Tinley’s older brother while she is engaged to Catherine’s brother.
Wait, I agree with Maria here! I never realized that it would have been possible that Isabella was using Catherine’s recent affection toward Udolpho to help her brother. It does make a lot of sense seeing how Isabella does play a big role in the schemes with making sure Catherine is stuck with them, love-bombing Catherine so she feels awful to saying no, then claiming if Catherine won’t go to the castle neither shall she, and then suddenly going cold towards Catherine claiming how she was so quick to drop Isabella to become friends with Miss.Tilney. Then only becoming affectionate towards Catherine when she has an engagement with Catherine’s brother. I can’t lie, I too was almost convinced of Isabella being a great friend for Catherine at first, and then further reading I was appalled at how easily I fell for her manipulation alongside Catherine.
I agree with your comment about Isabella helping her brother because in that same scene its like Isabella is trying to guilt trip Catherine into going with them instead of the Tilneys and begs and begs until Catherine feels bad enough and agrees. At some point it says that Catherine was too fearful to look at Isabella and see her smile because she knew that whatever game she was playing was going to work on Catherine because she is such a loyal friend to her.
The scene at the beginning of Chapter 11, when Catherine is tricked into going on a carriage ride with James and the Thorpes, is a very pivotal one. John told Catherine that he saw Tinley and a girl (presumably his sister) driving away from town. Catherine then, somewhat reluctantly, joined the group on their trip, which included seeing Blaize Castle, which Catherine was excited to see, as it is an old castle (the perfect Gothic setting). This scene highlights the scheming nature of John Thorpe, as when Catherine saw the Tinleys walking, she asked him to stop the carriage, but he “…only laughed, smacked his whip, encouraged his horse, made odd noises, and drove on…” (Austen 56). Later, Catherine is still rightfully upset about what happened in the carriage ride scene because she thinks the Tinleys will think less of her. Instead of apologizing for her and her brother’s actions, Isabella only places the blame on the Tinleys. She says that they simply should have just been on time and that if they minded the dirt on the ground, because they were going to go on a walk with Catherine, she and her brother would not have cared about it as they did (Austen 58). Isabella makes a point to highlight how superior she and her brother are in comparison to the Tinleys, which shows the reader more of their, especially Isabella’s, manipulative and false nature. That interpretation is important to the novel as a whole because the reader, and most importantly Catherine, learns further that the “kind” nature of the Thorpes is more of a facade. They only care about themselves over others, especially regarding Catherine, who they know is not the smartest when understanding society’s “rules.” Nevertheless, this helps to develop Catherine’s character more as she learns to look through such facades in society.
Hi Maria. I like your analysis here on the character of Isabella and the relationship between her and Catherine. While I don’t have much more to add to your analysis, I was thinking when I was reading your post that Austen writes the relationship between these two women very interestingly. In most novels that I have read, the relationship between two female best friends is often one of two kinds: either one is “good” and the other is “less good” or they are the absolute best of friends and are both “good.” No matter the relationship, though, they always learn something from one another and their friendship. For example, I recently read a novel where one of the women is a goody-two-shoes and is always trying to do what is right. The other woman is literally a murderer (!). That’s a drastic difference, I know, but what’s interesting about that relationship is that the characters STILL seem to have learned something from each other. In the novel I read, the “good” one learns that her instincts were right all along and that in the end, kindness wins. The other one learns about herself that the hatred that she held for the world often came from jealousy and misunderstanding. If they had just communicated better, things may have been different. To connect this back to Austen, I wonder what the relationship between the two women will teach not only both characters, but also the reader? I wonder if Isabella has reason to be conniving like she seems to be. And, will the potential demise of Isabella teach Catherine that good always wins in the end? I’m honestly not sure, but I know that the relationship between two female characters in many novels is often important in some way, and I will be interested to see how it is relevant in this story. (Also think about the female relationships in Kristen Hannah books, if that helps).
Lexi – I love that you brought up the way Austen writes female friendships. As I was reading the middle chapters, I kept finding myself thinking of the similarities between Isabella and Catherine and Emma and Harriet in “Emma.” In both of these relationships, we see a more affluent young woman take someone under her wing who is far less financially well off and socially experienced, and treating her almost like a pet. In both novels, the minute the less experienced friend expresses a desire or interest that does not align with what the more experienced friend wants, the more experienced of the two will take great paint to ensure that their friend stays by their side and doing as they please.
The scene where Catherine is tricked into going on the carriage ride with James and the Thorpes was the first section of this book that had me so captivated both with anger and anticipation that I could not put my book down. The scene follows a predicament Catherine faces when her brother James and the Thropes pressure her into going on a carriage ride after she made prior commitments to walk with the Tilneys. With extra pressure from those around her, she assumed they had to cancel because it had been raining all morning and the Tilneys were already late to meet with Catherine. John Thorpe assures Catherine that he saw the Tilneys driving in a “phaeton with bright chestnuts” as he and Isabella were on the way to Catherine and Mr and Mrs. Allen’s place. After she reluctantly leaves only with the hope of seeing Blaize Castle, she sees Henry and Elanor Tilney walking alongside the road to meet her. When she tries to call out, John Thorpe whips his horse faster, turns the corner, and refuses to stop to allow her to chase after him. Her spirits are lowered for the rest of the trip.
This scene serves to further solidify the malicious nature of John Thorpe. He cares only for his own interests. He wants to keep Catherine away from Henry Tilney because he believes that Catherine is the heir to the Allen’s fortunes. He wants to court Catherine to get his hands on the fortune –despite her not actually being the heir– and he sees Tilney as a romantic threat. I believe that this is important to the novel as a whole because it is likely setting up the conflict between Thorpe and Tilney.
I like how you mention your emotions while reading this scene because it is hard not to get angry, for Catherine’s sake, with how the Thorpes act to her. It also had me anxious for Catherine to be able to explain herself because what would the Tilney’s think of her?? Bringing up Thorpe’s misconception around Catherine’s fortune is interesting because it makes you wonder about Isabella’s feelings for James. are they genuine? or is she just in it for the fortune.
No, because I had the same reaction towards the carriage scene as well, I just could not put the book down either. I think struggle with seeing John Thorpe as such a malicious character, not because I think he has any good faith in him, no he’s awful, but truthfully because I think he is too stupid and brash to form any of these coherent ideas, that there are points where I think Isabella plotting these schemes. He just seems too much of a brute to have any proper thoughts, for instance, locking Catherine in the carriage and just blaming it because he swore that man looked exactly like Henry, to just straight forward walking to the Tilney’s family and going “Catherine has plans she forgot about, the walk will be Tuesday.” I was in shock, I didn’t expect him to be so… blunt? It makes me excited or hope to see banter between the highly educated Henry Tilney and my perception of Thorpe. It also makes me wonder who is taking the most initiative right now trying to keep Catherine and James, is Isabella who I perceived as the brains? Or is it James? I don’t know, regardless, I’m excited!
Hi Mila! I really liked your take on this. This scene also made me unreasonably angry, not just towards John Thorpe, but also to his sister and Mr. Moreland. It is clear that they planned this to some extent, and while I wish it hadn’t happened, I think it is a really important scene for Catherine to realize that not everyone has her best interests at heart. People can be incredibly selfish, and I think this scene was instrumental in helping Catherine begin to see that.
In Chapter 1 of volume 2, Isabella heard from James again after receiving Mr. Morlands blessing in chapter 15. Mr. Morland offered James a living of 400 pounds per year, and a house he would inherit. The stipulation of this allowance was that it would not come until James was “old enough” to bear it. This led James to extend the impending nuptials between him and Isabella for a few years. James and Catherine contently welcomed this idea, but this, Isabella claimed, was the reason for her sorrow as she believed she could live on a very modest allowance. I felt that Jane Austen definitely used sarcasm in this scene. Particularly in the conversation between Mrs. Thorpe and Isabella. It felt to me that they were rather unhappy with the allowance itself, making continual remarks like “It is not on my own account I wishfor more: but I cannot bear to be the means of injuring my dear Morland, making him sit down upon an income hardly enough to find one in the common necessities of life. For myself, it is nothing; I never think of myself.” (93). I believe that Isabella and her mother in an attempt to shade their discontent with Mr. Morland’s offer, chose to harp on the time Isabella and James would have to wait to marry. Likely to not offend Catherine, but also to not look greedy.
Mrs. Thorpe’s manners in this scene kind of show where Isabella gets it from. they work together, using similar verbiage to, as you wrote, hide their true feelings about James’s inheritance. this may also foreshadow future actions from Isabella; if she may start to seek out someone else who can offer her the fortune she’s looking for. this scene also makes you wonder if Isabella ever had real feelings for James or not.
Hi Rebekka! I also thought that this scene was quite interesting. I agree with your reading that Isabella was discontent with the amount of money but had to disguise this by using the amount of time that would have to pass before they are able to get married. This scene also made me wonder about the time frame of their relationship. While I know that it was more common for younger people to get married quicker, but Isabell and her mother seem to be in such a haste it is almost shocking. Do you think that there is something more sinister going on?
Yes, exactly! The importance of money and property can’t be ignored here. Just like in conventional Gothic works like Udolpho, it’s often the money that the villains are really after…
This scene is one that stuck with me in chapters 11-21, mainly because of the foreboding tone of Henry. To me, the scene really begins when Henry assures Catherine she has a very idealized vision of what Northanger Abbey is going to be like and asks her, “Are you prepared to encounter all the horrors that a building such as ‘what one reads about’ may produce?” In class we discussed how this novel is a spoof of gothic literature, and this line emphasizes that, but also draws the reader into the ominous story unfolding, just like a gothic novel would. As much as Austen is making light of the perception of Gothic literature, she is also roping her readers into enjoying one. After Henry asks this question, we see Catherine react in her typical manner, which is mostly unfazed, swearing that none of the things Henry implies will happen could possibly happen to her. To me, this was a big character-defining moment for both of these characters. Henry reveals that there is more to his charm than meets the eye, but we are not quite sure yet if he has played a part in these odd happenings at Northanger, or if he has been a victim of something similar. Catherine stays true to her socially unaware nature, which will propel us into how she may react/stand her ground if the horrors of Northanger are true (which we later see begin with the storm, just like Henry predicted). I think this scene is very important because it pulls back the curtain on what these multiple chapters of build-up and characterization have been about. Most importantly, it begins to explain the Tilney’s strange nature and uncomfortable behavior around each other.
Hey Harper!
I also wrote about this scene as well. We both had similar thoughts on this chapter. This encounter between the two will lead to some interesting scenes later in the book! I personally really enjoyed the next chapter, in which Catherine explores her wardrobe and hears strange noises throughout the night, something you noted. I also liked your commentary on Henry. There is something interesting about him and his motifs, and I look forward to learning more about him.
Hi Harper!
I analyzed the same scene as well and we seemed to have a pretty similar train of thought. Like you say, this scene pulls back the curtain on these characters and we begin to understand more. I like that you make the point that it begins to explain Tilney’s strangeness as we uncover more about him. I also made note of Catherine’s response and believe that this conversation between them not only preps us for what she’s about to encounter, but also mentally sets the stage for herself to assume her role as a gothic heroine as she becomes curious about Northanger.
Hi Harper! Great post! I agree with you that this scene definitely foreshadows later events. I would argue that while Catherine is expecting Gothic things to happen as far as events and places go, Austen is leading us to consider Gothic elements in character dynamics. The foreboding aura of his teasing suggests that there is definitely more than what meets the eye, potentially with his father? General Tilney has a very respectable and kind image, but his harshness and high expectations behind closed doors suggests to me that while supernatural things may not happen, we should consider what psychological things and our relationships with others can do.
The scene in the beginning of chapter 11 where Catherine is tricked into going on a carriage ride with John is the beginning of the decline, in my opinion, of her view on the Thorpe’s. The way I’ve characterized these beginning chapters in my mind is by thinking of the Thorpe’s and the Tilney’s as the Devil and the Angel on her shoulder, BUT since Catherine is unfamiliar with what traits are good vs. bad, she is still trying to figure out if the Tilney’s or the Thorpe’s are the Angel she needs to side with (does this make sense?? I hope so.)
However, this chapter not only shows Catherine, but also shows the readers how manipulative and pushy Isabella and John are. John literally lies to Catherine about Tilney’s interest in her, and continuously deceives her just in an effort to keep Catherine trapped in his sphere. Additionally, although Isabella had been seen as Catherine’s only friend towards the beginning of the novel, as it progresses its easier to see how manipulative she can be towards Catherine and how at the end of the day she is trying to take advantage of a socially awkward and naive female heroine.
I really love the angel and devil comparison! I think that part, if not all of Catherine’s almost “childish” understanding of society comes from her home, and the sheer simpleness of it. I would like to imagine that neither the Thorpe’s or the Tilney’s are using this to their advantage, but it seems pretty clear that the Thorpes are acting evil! Maybe we will see more character growth out of them in the coming chapters.
Hey Audrey!
Your analysis of Henry and John was a great take! The common motif within the genre is “good vs evil,” and is demonstrated between two characters. However, I almost wonder if these character types will change later in the novel. Perhaps being in the abbey will make Catherine change her mind. I like Henry, but I definitely question him. Do you know what I mean, haha?
I totally agree with your view of the Tilney’s and the Thorpe’s as the devil/angel on Catherine’s shoulder. To me, they are the Gothic “double” that we have discussed in class. It’s easy to get them confused due to the last names both starting with T’s, but they are very oppositely motivated people once you understand who’s who. At the beginning of the novel, I had a suspicion that John might be the Gothic “captor” archetype, and although that probably isn’t the case now that Catherine is at Northanger, it still rings true in other ways– just how it did in this scene.
Hi Audrey! I thought your angel/devil on the shoulder comparison was very interesting, and I especially like how you point out that Catherine does not really know the difference between good and bad. She definitely makes it very easy for other people to take advantage of her. It seems that she can be easily convinced of anything. I definitely think Isabella picked out this trait in Catherine very early, and uses it against her at times, especially as we get deeper into the book. It becomes more and more obvious how toxic the Thorpe characters are.
Ugh, reading this story, it just amazes me at how crazier the story gets each time, during the majority of the chapters we aren’t back in Udolpho where Emily was watching Italians fight for her in the middle of the night in the bedroom, rather we are watching Catherine in Chapter 11 get kidnapped to go to a supposed haunted castle, so her “friends” can guarantee she misses her walk with the Tilney’s. It was such a blast to read that and to see how Catherine is so trusting and wants to believe everyone wants the best for her, but alas, the Thorpes have something up their sleeve. It was even better seeing how Catherine is a lot more heroic than we think she is, there was a moment when I was reading the book, when I was thinking about how Austen did change the gender roles in the story for a bit, where the Tilney’s both Eleanor and Henry were playing the damsel in distress role, and Catherine was the one to save them, especially because they were both believing Catherine to have disappeared on her accord without any word to them. Then we see Catherine take the initiative by clearing her name, she runs to meet up with Eleanor back at her house, only to have to face the shame of not meeting with her again, then she sees Henry at the theatre, and she almost considers going to his booth and clearing it right then and there, but alas, she’s ladylike and waits a bit, but still doesn’t hesitate to explain everything right then and there, scoring another walk with the Tilneys. And when the Thorpes try to set her up for failure again? She doesn’t hesitate to run across to the Tilney’s house, BARGE IN, and clear her name once more where Henry and Eleanor are left wondering what they have done wrong to be devoid of Catherine’s attachment. I truly think while she doesn’t fall underneath the traditional heroine path, I do think she’s more of a hero than we believe, it’s how she’s so naive and a gentle heart, that she wants to make sure everything goes her way, that it conflicts with the mischief that folks like Thorpe tried to take advantage of, but she refuses to let it occur again.
I found the scene in chapter 20, in which Henry and Catherine talk in the carriage on the way to Northanger, to be particularly interesting. In their conversation Henry, knowing Catherine’s love of the gothic genre, pokes fun at her and goes on to describe Northanger in a very gothic manner, mimicking a gothic writer. He asks her, “And are you prepared to encounter all the horrors that a building such as ‘what one reads about’ may produce?- have you a stout heart?- Nerves fit for sliding panels and tapestry” (110). Although Catherine in response assures him that none of these things will happen, this playful interaction sets up her curiosity and expectations for the Abbey. This sparks the interest within Catherine to look at the Abbey in a gothic light, setting her up to investigate the supernatural and horror that the Abbey may bring. This scene acts to bring the novel and its characters into the gothic genre. Additionally, it’s also important to point out that in this scene Austen is also highlighting her play on the gothic genre. Henry’s line, “Are you prepared to encounter all the horrors that a building such as ‘what one reads about’ may produce” is an emphasis of this and is Austen’s way of making fun of the gothic genre.
Hi Kaitlyn! I also found the carriage scene interesting, and especially the fact that Mr. Tilney kind of feeds into Catherine’s imagination and innocence by telling her this story. I also agree with you that his story sets up the gothic aspect of the novel, which we have not seen very much of in the first half of the book. I think it is definitely a good transitionary scene to take the story from the trivial matters of societal life in Bath to a more spooky, mysterious gothic castle. I also like how you point out Henry “making fun” of the gothic genre and sort of breaking the fourth wall again. He has a very mocking personality.
The scene at the beginning of of chapter 11 is when Catherine is waiting for Miss Tilney to show up for their walk but was delayed after it rained so once Mr. Thorpe and Isabella convinced her to go visit some castle, Mr Thorpe said he saw the Tilneys out doing other stuff, she agreed to ride with him in his carriage. As soon as they start to leave, Catherine sees Miss Tilney and demands Mr. Torpe to let her out but he only gets his horse to go faster and Catherine is furious. “How could you tell me they were gone?- Stop, stop, I will get out this moment and go to them.” I think Catherines language here is really important because it shows how loyal her character is. She really didn’t want to go with Thorpe in the first place and then when she does and see the Tilneys shes immediately yelling at him to let her out. Even though we kind of already know what Mr. Thorpes intentions are, this scene kind of cements his character as the snobby and self-interested guy. I also think this scene is really important for the plot but also the novel as a whole because it is like an unconventional gothic and almost like a parody. She was “kidnapped and trapped” and on the way to a castle but not like the typical gothic novels because she not got there and escaped.
Hi Avery! I like your analysis of the scene being like a twist on a gothic convention. I think you’re right in saying that. To add to your analysis, I think another reason why Austen chooses to write this scene with Catherine and escaping this “kidnapping” is to continue that convention in female gothic novels where authors start to challenge the gender roles and the typical cliches of gothic novels. It seems that Catherine goes from the damsel in distress to narrowly escaping the kidnapping, so Austen is already beginning to establish the “awakening” of Catherine’s character. However, let’s not forget about Isabella, since she is the one who speaks up and tells John to turn around. While Isabella isn’t on our good side after tricking her best friend, it seems the Austen is beginning to paint Isabella as her own person with a voice, starting to challenge the sexist views of the time.
In chapter 11, when Catherine is tricked into going on the carriage ride, I found that it strengthened my negative feelings towards all three characters: John, James, and Isabella. The way that John could feel comfortable lying directly to Catherine was disgusting, considering their relationship, but James — her own brother — and her best friend Isabella going along with the story? What kind of family and best friend would do that? I know they really want her to go with them, and I have no doubt that the lie comes from John’s need for control over her, but still. They all consciously tricked her and I think that says a lot about their characters. Clearly, they value societal expectations and confines over their friendships. Furthermore, the way that John uses Catherine’s love of gothic novels against her feels even more personal. While I don’t doubt that the castle was lovely, although they don’t quite get to the castle on their journey, I highly doubt that the castle is as John agreed it to be. Every time Catherine would ask if the castle had something, John would say yes. It was clearly to entice her to agree to go with them. I wonder what would have happened if Catherine had gone to the castle and found that John had lied to her about that, too?
Hi, Lexi! I completely agree with what you are saying! I was also disturbed by James and Isabella turning on her, although they wanted her to accompany them it is completely unfair to Catherine for them to lie about it. I noticed the “reassuring” dialogue as well, him consistently saying yes to everything. I thought this really showed how his manipulation of the situation really worked, as he was saying yes to everything she wanted to see to get her to go.
Hi, Lexi! I completely agree with what you are saying! I was also disturbed by James and Isabella turning on her, although they wanted her to accompany them it is completely unfair to Catherine for them to lie about it. I noticed the “reassuring” dialogue as well, him consistently saying yes to everything. I thought this really showed how his control of the situation really worked, as he was saying yes to everything she wanted to see to get her to go.
Hi Lexi! I think you make a really great point about the evocative power of this scene in making us really hate John Thorpe. I think its very interesting that you bring up the way that societal expectations are valued above friendships. I think that is a pretty good way of thinking about the reasoning behind certain decisions in the text. In a slightly different way, I think you can read societal expectations as being a part of why Catherine is unable to leave the carriage. Yes there is the physical side of John not stopping it for her. But in the language used in this scene it is clear the emphasis placed on the upholding of societal expectations of how women “should” act with men. Particularly, the text discusses the way in which Catherine must “submit.”
I think the scene in Chapter 19 when Henry and Catherine discuss the flirtation between Captain Tilney and Isabella is important to the story and very clearly stresses Catherine’s naivety. It is very clear from this scene that Catherine is not capable of seeing the bad in people, or their true intentions. This can also be seen in her interactions with John Thorpe, but more so in this scene. Catherine cannot comprehend why Captain Tilney would flirt with Isabella when he knows she is engaged. This shows her lack of understanding of the world she has entered into. Her naivety is clear when she says “Oh! No, not flirts. A woman in love with one man cannot flirt with another.” (Austen 104). Catherine very obviously has little to no concept of dishonesty or unfaithfulness, which can make it very easy for her character to get taken advantage of. I think this scene is important to the whole novel because it may foreshadow that Catherine’s naive personality will get taken advantage of in some way or another. I also believe that Catherine will find out the hard way how selfish and uncaring people can be. Mr. Tilney obviously knows what his brother and Isabella are doing, but does not explicitly tell Catherine and instead tries to reassure her that everything will be fine, which is also interesting and I am curious to see how that will play into the story.
Hi Kendall! I think you make a really great point here about Catherine’s naivety as it is seen in her discussion of the flirtation between Captain Tilney and Isabella. Again and again throughout the text we see Catherine take things at face value and not recognize dishonestly in others. Not only does she not recognize it, but as you put it, it is incomprehensible to her. The possibility of flirtation involving those already engaged not only shouldn’t happen, it is not even a possibility. It is this, taken to a nearly hyperbolic level by Austen as a part of this satire of the Gothic, that allows for the later gothic occurrences to take place.
In this scene in Chapter 11, Catherine is made to go on a Carriage ride with John Thorpe, and is not let out to meet her friends, even after she sees them. This scene serves as a stand-in for the trope of being kidnapped that is often seen in gothic literature, however, this kidnapping is interestingly conveyed less through a show of force, but more through the powerlessness of Catherine in the gendered structure of her society. I found the quote, “Catherine, angry and vexed as she was, having no power of getting away, was obliged to give up the point and submit,” to be particularly interesting. Here the idea of forcible submission as conveyed in the language of these lines combines with the indigent fury that we are meant to feel at Catherine’s being lied to and held against her will. This scene further displays clearly the gendered power structure of Catherine’s society, in which the acceptance of an invitation results in imprisonment within the will of the man. Of further interest is the way that the text’s language conveys the apparent joy John Thorpe is receiving from holding Catherine captive. The text states that “Mr. Thorpe only laughed, smacked his whip, encouraged his horse, made odd noises, and drove on.” Here it is clear that acting contradictory to Catherine’s wishes here gives Thorpe immense entertainment. Interestingly, I argue that here his description verges on the animalistic or savage. The laughing, mixed with odd noises here create a notion of an individual pushed beyond the normal level of composure. Thus, in this scene, not only is Austen able to convey a trope of Gothic literature, but further display the harsh realities of gendered power dynamics.
I thought that the scene in chapter 19 in which Catherine and Henry are discussing the noticeable flirtations between Isabella and Captain Tilney was very interesting. At first glance, this scene adheres to the theme Austen has been maintaining throughout the novel of Catherine’s ignorance to the mannerisms and subtleties of adult society, but I also think it speaks to the state of gender relations and romantic culture at the time as well. When Catherine insists that “a woman in love with one man cannot flirt with another,” and Henry replies that “she will neither love so well, nor flirt so well, as she might do either singly,” and says that every man will have to give up a little of each, I think Austen is providing us very intimate insights into the dynamics and rules of relationships during this time period, a lot of which have held up today. Additionally, through reading these chapters, 19 and 20 in particular, it occurred to me that beyond being a spoof of Gothic literature and also a domestic novel, this is also a coming of age story. By repeatedly putting Catherine in these social situations that she doesn’t know how to navigate, thus forcing her to adhere to what those around her are saying, Austen is creating a lot of the themes we see in coming of age novels and films today.
In this scene, Catherine is made to go on a Carriage ride with John Thorpe, and is not let out to meet her friends, even after she sees them. This scene serves as a stand-in for the trope of being kidnapped that is often seen in gothic literature, however, this kidnapping is interestingly conveyed less through a show of force, but more through the powerlessness of Catherine in the gendered structure of her society. I found the quote, “Catherine, angry and vexed as she was, having no power of getting away, was obliged to give up the point and submit,” to be particularly interesting. Here the idea of forcible submission as conveyed in the language of these lines combines with the indigent fury that we are meant to feel at Catherines being lied to and held against her will. This scene further displays clearly the gendered power structure of Catherine’s society, in which the acceptance of an invitation results in imprisonment within the will of the man. Of further interest is the way that the text’s language conveys the apparent joy John Thorpe is receiving from holding Catherine captive. The text states that “Mr. Thorpe only laughed, smacked his whip, encouraged his horse, made odd noises, and drove on.” Here it is clear that acting contradictory to Catherine’s wishes here gives Thorpe immense entertainment. Interestingly, I argue that here his description verges on the animalistic or savage. The laughing, mixed with odd noises here create a notion of an individual pushed beyond the normal level of composure. Thus, in this scene, not only is Austen able to convey a trope of Gothic literature, but further display the harsh realities of gendered power dynamics.
I was particularly fascinated by Catherine’s dinner with the Tilneys in Chapter 16. It is not only a great display of Catherine’s naivety, but also a really interesting look at what the Tilneys are like outside of the public eye. While they present a very respectable and unified image outside of their household, within it they are much more stiff and very tense. It was “a release” to get away from General Tilney, Henry “had never said so little,” and her relationship with Miss Tilney was “hardly so intimate…as before.” Not only does this scene masterfully set up the family dynamics for her accompaniment with them to Northanger Abbey, but also introduces Catherine to the idea that people are not always as they appear, something that will be invaluable to her as she continues her friendship with Isabella. I think this also set up General Tilney as the “reality” version of the evil father trope in Gothic literature. Even though he does not physically abuse his children, his harshness and high expectations undoubtedly have done psychological damage, as can be seen in Chapter 21 when Miss Tilney is clearly very afraid of being late to dinner. I’m very intrigued to see how Austen plays with this idea of Gothic dynamics existing in the real world in future chapters.
Chapter 11 opens with Catherine waiting for the Tilney’s to arrive for their planned outing, only to be tricked on going on a carriage ride with James and the Thorpes. Within this chapter, we begin to dive deep on Catherine’s naivety and the manipulation done by Isabella and John. John enters the scene assertive and bold by lying to Catherine and convincing her to join them. I noticed his dialogue and how he spoke to her in a bantering manner, which I believe highlights the tactics of his manipulation. Isabella adds onto this by referring to Catherine as “My dearest Catherine, you cannot form an idea of the dirt, come, you must go” (55). This hasty and somewhat endearing tone leads me to believe Isabella is making Catherine feel dumb or childish. Later in the chapter, as Catherine pleads to turn back, Mr. Thorpe is laughing at her cries and only going father from the Tilneys. This illustrates his lack of consideration for her and his attempt to impress her has failed. Furthermore, I believe Catherine’s naivety is highlighted throughout this entire chapter. We watch as she is tricked by the others and allows them to continue to guide her down the path. Her putting the situation off and thinking of the castle shows her lack of care for what happens to her. I feel as though she is putting the situation off to avoid confrontation, adding to the concept of her being walked over.