Here are some questions to consider for class on Monday. Of course, you also have the option to write about anything else in the readings for the day that interested you.
- Look at the relationship between Jake and Montoya as the novel progresses. Why does Jake tell Montoya not to give Pedro Romero the message about the American ambassador (p. 176; Ch. 16)? How and why does the relationship begin to change? Can you point to specific indications that things between the two men have grown bad?
- Discuss Brett’s relationship with Pedro Romero
- On p. 182 (Ch. 16), Jake describes Cohn as being “ready to do battle for his lady love,”and on p. 203 (Ch. 17), Jake speculates that Cohn believed “true love would conquer all.” Discuss these passages–what do they show about Cohn and his views of love? How are they related to what we know of Cohn previously? How is he different from the other revelers at the fiesta that Jake hangs out with? Why is he said repeatedly to “behave badly”?
- Consider the fiesta as a sort of liminal space: a transitional space out of ordinary time and place that occurs in the middle of rituals. You might look at the following definition of liminality, from Wikipedia, and see if you think it applies to what goes on during the fiesta at Pamplona.
In anthropology liminality (from the Latin word līmen, meaning “a threshold”) is the quality of ambiguity or disorientation that occurs in the middle stage of rituals, when participants no longer hold their pre-ritual status but have not yet begun the transition to the status they will hold when the ritual is complete. During a ritual’s liminal stage, participants “stand at the threshold” between their previous way of structuring their identity, time, or community, and a new way, which the ritual establishes.
The concept of liminality was first developed in the early 20th century by anthropologist Arnold von Gennep and later taken up by Victor Turner. More recently, usage of the term has broadened to describe political and cultural change as well as rituals. During liminal periods of all kinds, social hierarchies may be reversed or temporarily dissolved, continuity of tradition may become uncertain, and future outcomes once taken for granted may be thrown into doubt. The dissolution of order during liminality creates a fluid, malleable situation that enables new institutions and customs to become established.
– Discuss Brett’s relationship with Pedro Romero
Through-out this novel, Brett Ashely is outwardly challenging traditional gender roles, and is a sexually independent woman. Her short, masculine-esque hair doesn’t stop men from finding her beautiful, and almost every man she comes into contact with wants a chance to sleep with her. So when she meets bull-fighter Pedro Romero, it’s no surprise that he would reciprocate her flirting.
Brett first lays eyes on Romero during a bull-fight, and immediately has trouble taking her eyes off him. She’s sat between Mike and Cohn, but has no shame in her wandering eye. After the fight, when the three are back together with Jake and Bill, she even comments on “those green trousers” (pg 169) and requests that she borrow binoculars for the next time. She acts very quickly with Romero, and by the next night, she gets Jake to introduce her to him. She spends an entire meal flirting openly with Romero infront of not only her fiance, but two men that are in love with her. This causes Mike to act outwardly sour as he gets more and more drunk, and eventually he flirts with another girl (perhaps in an attempt to get Brett to feel the pain he does).
Later in that same evening, Brett and Jake are alone, and she spills about how she’s “never felt such a bitch” (page 187). She feels lost, confused, torn-up, all because of her feelings for Romero. “I’m a goner. I’m mad about the Romero boy. I’m in love with him I think” (page 187). She shakes with nerves about this and is clearly not wearing her usual facade of confidence (although, with Jake, she doesn’t feel the need to). Romero spots the two and interrupts this conversation. Immediately, Brett’s magnetic and desirable air is back on, and she covers up her nerves. Eventually, she sleeps with Romero that night, and causes a boat-load of problems for the people she travels and sleeps with.
In the short time she has with Romero, he gives away prizes of his victories (bull ears), gets violently and relentlessly beaten up by Cohn, and has to defend their relationship together to the people in his life (manager-esque, or like publicists to him? It’s unclear and I’m unsure). The sacrifices he makes for her are transparent to everyone, and pretty public. Brett, despite stating that she feels like she’s falling in love, never shows this same loyalty to him. Her affection for him is most apparent when the door is closed. At the end of Book II, Brett and Romero have skipped town together leaving a very broken Mike to get drunk, and a sad Jake to experience that same heartbreak, again.
The fiesta in Pamplona stands as sort of a liminal space for Jake, Cohn, Brett, and Mike. Most importantly, this space that the fiesta is existing in is acting as a vehicle for Jake and the transition period he is now going through. This “liminality” that is present creates a threshold that has a, “quality of ambiguity or disorientation that occurs in the middle stage of rituals, when participants no longer hold their pre-ritual status but have not yet begun the transition to the status they will hold when the ritual is complete.” This fiesta is the breaking point in The Sun Also Rises. We as readers see Jake enter a space where everything changes. In chapter 15, Jake says, “The things that happened could only have happened during a fiesta. Everything became quite unreal finally and it seemed as though nothing could have any consequences. It seemed out of place to think of consequences during the fiesta,” (Hemingway). This emphasizes the liminal space he is existing in. An overwhelming sense of disorientation and ritual (such as the fiesta) is occurring simultaneously. Jake experiences the seven days of nonstop drinking, and reaches a sort of spiritual state due to this continuous drunkenness. Following this idea, anthropologists Gennep and Turner write that: “The dissolution of order during liminality creates a fluid, malleable situation that enables new institutions and customs to become established.” All order is lost in the chaos of the fiesta as the bull fights sound the start of his days and he must experience Brett in all her beauty in his warped state of mind. Additionally, money begins to lose all worth amongst the group and long dinners together only add to the heightened sense of liminality.
Continued: (Not all of my post copied in correctly)…
The threshold of a liminal space is also interesting to consider in this context as the fiesta is set to come to an end, along with this sense of disorientation. This disorientation is also to blame for Jake’s heightened emotions toward Brett. Toward the end of the fiesta we see Brett confess an attraction to Romero, which pulls Jake out of the overwhelming liminal state he has been in for the last week. We can also see that on this last day of the fiesta the weather has changed dramatically and the group disperses accordingly, leaving Jake and Brett to confront each other. The repetition regarding nature/the natural world is intriguing when examining emotions and character development alongside a change of scenery as we have seen in previous chapters… Finally, Jake has an awakening as he returns back to the cafe only to find Brett has left with Romero.
On p. 182 (Ch. 16), Jake describes Cohn as being “ready to do battle for his lady love,”and on p. 203 (Ch. 17), Jake speculates that Cohn believed “true love would conquer all.” Discuss these passages–what do they show about Cohn and his views of love? How are they related to what we know of Cohn previously? How is he different from the other revelers at the fiesta that Jake hangs out with? Why is he said repeatedly to “behave badly”?
In the first scene of the book that introduces us to Robert Cohn, we’re show that he has very grandiose views on adventure, romance, life in general: he wants to travel to South America simply because he’s read a book which was based there. As a novelist and a lover of literature he possesses warped views of reality, and having a family who provides for him financially likely only contributes to this. Immediately he’s shown in contrast to Jake— a journalist, not a novelist, and someone who’s seen real war and real injury, not just boxing match microcosms of war. Cohn has, of course, experienced real suffering, but apparently not so much that its given him the hardened exterior that Jake, Brett, Mike, and the other who had been in the war possessed.
As the story goes on Cohn becomes convinced that he’s fallen madly in love with Brett, and as the rest of the group antagonizes him about this (though, they all antagonize each other) he finally falls back on physical violence rather than simply arguing, first punching Jake so hard he falls unconscious, then hitting Mike, then even continuing on to find Pedro Romero. His fight with Romero seems to become a larger plot point than his fight with Jake or Mike, and as Romero takes on and kills the bulls on the last day of the week-long fiesta, we see his wounds still causing him pain. Cohn’s physical violence and the general problems he causes for the group— at least in their eyes— by chasing after Brett, rearranging plans, or arguing with Jake or Mike are exactly what earns him the description of behaving badly. What seems to separate Cohn from the rest despite the fact that they all argue and involve themselves in complicated romances is the fact that he is living in this fiction-inspired view of the world, and the rest, due to war, are very much not. Cohn is not, as the bull-fighters would say, an aficionado. He hasn’t seen the up-close gore of a fight or experienced a person he “cared anything about” suffering (page 225). While the majority of the group is still reeling from violence and retreats to war-like emotional relationships, Cohn has only ever experienced grandiose emotions, and now brings physical violence. Neither group is objectively more correct in their views, both are damaged, but they seem to be travelling in opposite directions.
The relationship between Jake and Montoya starts out very well, with Montoya being very admirable towards Jake, stating that he is a man with true aficion. While Jake’s friends are noisy, careless, and always a bit drunk, Montoya excuses it for Jake, knowing his passion and understanding of bullfighting is pure, something that Montoya values in his hotel guests. When Montoya asks Jake whether he should give Romero the message, Jake says no because people from America that are searching for these bullfighters with untouched potential are going to throw fame and fortune onto them, something that a true aficionado doesn’t value. Pedro being nineteen wouldn’t know any better than to accept the flattery from Americans and go along with what they say. Montoya is relieved that Jake suggests he not give him the letter. On page 180, Montoya watches as Romero sits with Jake, Brett, Bill and the others, who are all drunk and loud and conversing with Romero. Montoya sees Romero with a big glass of brandy talking to a bunch of drunks and flirting with a “woman with bare shoulders.” Montoya sees this and does not even not or smile at Jake. He realizes this is what he had feared happening to Romero; Americans taking advantage of Romero’s innocence.